Is Christmas too commercial?

[smorzando]

well... is it? and if so why?

I think it is. It isnt about the birth of Jesus, or giving to the poor anymore. Its just about big companies trying to cash in on people spending money. They even start advertising in October too, and then theres those massive toy sales in the middle of the year where you hold stuff on lay-by til Christmas. You're more likely to hear on TV about kids getting the latest toys for Christmas rather than hearing about the Salvos helping out a family in need.

Ok maybe this will turn into a rant. But I'm intrested to see what people think.

smorz.

[gemeaux]

I guess if you look at it on a massive scale. Christmas for me is about being with my family and enjoying a nice meal together. Yes, there are gifts, but it's about giving to those you love, no matter how much it costs. I just gave all my co-workers a Christmas card that I hand picked for each of them with a little message about how much I appreciated working with them, they were all more than happy with that. Christmas for me was never a religious thing, because I'm not religious, it just developed into this time of year where you shared a little bit of love, in a world where it's not said or shown enough.

[Silver Wind]

Well I do not celebrate Christmas, I celebrate the Yuletide, the celebration of the Winter Solistice, but I think really, it is what it the individual makes of it. Retailiers and bussiness are going to do what they always do, and try to make money in anyway they can come up with it, but I think it is for each person to celebrate the true meaning of the holiday, whatever that meaning may be for each person, or whatever holiday they choose to celebrate. We cannot rely upon the media or cooperations to do this for us. So in the public eye it may appear commoercial, but it is for each of us to make it something more then that.

[Flutterings]

For me, Christmas is about making sure the ones I love know they are loved. So for me, no.

[k2hsharpe]

Ah smorz
that's right, down here in Aussie we get the advertising away earlier and earlier each year. By the time your kids are your age we will be like Amberly and celebrating it around the winter solstice (ours).

What you say is true,and my experience is that this feeling is one of those things that mark transition into adult hood. It indicates an awareness that we are constantly manipulated and our moral values subverted for profit.

But ...

then our adulthood morphs into parenthood. And we rediscover the joys of Xmas, the anticipation, the paper wrapping shredding, the gorging, the sheer self indulgence all over again.

But ...

then our kids grow into young adults and stop liking us (sort of). Xmas becomes a sort of marathon to be endured on our way to the New Year which we desperately hope will be better than the old one and we sort of go off the idea somewhat again
(laughing)))

But ...

then our 1st grandchild arrives, and the cycle starts all over again
absofucking bonza !!!

But ...
and this is my last 'but'. Not so much a 'but' but more of an 'also' really.

The thing about Xmas is that it twice signifies transition into the adult world. Yours is the second one. The first was when you first learnt Santa Claus was myth, not real. Of all childhoods' lies, this is the one that almost all children keep. They join our conspiracy to keep it alive for those littler than they are. I'm aware of no other situation where this happens so almost universally.

And that for me is what makes it so lovely

Everyone, enjoy the Xmas and New Year

[smorzando]

I get what you mean, Kevin. But theres always gonna be the kid who's the odd one out who never believed in Santa Claus in the first place. They'd be the kid that would go to sit on Santa's lap at the shopping centre and try to pull off his beard.

Its kinda weird though - the fact that holidays have changed so much. I mean... how many Aussies actually know what Boxing Day is? Chances are that most people will have in their heads an image of people boxing - as in the sport. Boxing Day has become the opposite of what it was originally meant to be: it was MEANT to be a day of giving to the poor, and now it has become a day of bargain sales and splurging on yourself.

sorry.. another rant. ignore me.

smorz.

[k2hsharpe]

sorry.. another rant. ignore me.

smorz.

Sorry smorz,

can't ignore you because ....
1) you are Aussie, our constitution doesn't allow it
2) I like you, my constitution doesn't allow it
3) G-d likes you, and he'll smite anyone who ignores you
... and I cannot afford to be smote no more!

"They'd be the kid that would go to sit on Santa's lap at the shopping centre and try to pull off his beard. "
..... that's why they let loose The Bad Santa" on the world, the movie was but a warning, to be ignored at their peril by any child.

"...it was MEANT to be a day of giving to the poor, and now it has become a day of bargain sales and splurging on yourself."

You know, a wiser person than myself once wrote ...
what did that bugger write .......????
I'll have to paraphrase because I forget the exact words ...
"The only thing needed for evil to flourish in the world is for good people to stand by and do nothing."
..... I believe this is such an important universal truth that every school should have it as it's motto.

I knew a man once who every year donated a significant percentage of his annual income to various charities, from memory it was about 20% plus. He told me that one day the ATO contacted him and asked about this. He told them he believed in helping those less fortunate than him and provided proof. The ATO person apparently told him it was very suspicious and one more Tax Return like that and he would be hauled in and audited for however many back years the law allowed for. This is my memory, may not be entirely accurate.

I've also known people who have given up part of their Xmas Day to serve lunch at places say like Sydney City Mission (I just guessed this last because I can't remember exactly which places over the years). I know a woman who every year collects toys and stuff to be given to charities that distribute such things at Christmas time to children in need.

As individuals we can all make little differences. Just pick the way you are comfortable with. Do it when you can and have no guilt when you don't or can't. My personal belief is that if occasionally in your life you make a good difference in some one else's life, so that when things go bad for them they have a memory that reminds them things can be better, then your own life is validated. Sadly, I've failed to live up to my own belief far too often, but this is what it is to be human - flawed.

Soooooo, smorz ...
did Santa make nice to you this year. I hope so because it's good to be gifted lots of swooosh things. Your time will come to give to people who have very little, no worries.

In the New Year may God grant your fingers speed and nimbleness to rival Pagannini's (wasn't he reputed to have gotten his from the Opposition???)

Kevin

[smorzando]

Sorry smorz,

can't ignore you because ....
1) you are Aussie, our constitution doesn't allow it
2) I like you, my constitution doesn't allow it
3) G-d likes you, and he'll smite anyone who ignores you
... and I cannot afford to be smote no more!

This bit made me laugh out loud - literally haha.

..... that's why they let loose The Bad Santa" on the world, the movie was but a warning, to be ignored at their peril by any child.

I have never seen or heard of that movie.... should i have seen or heard of it?

You know, a wiser person than myself once wrote ...
what did that bugger write .......????
I'll have to paraphrase because I forget the exact words ...
"The only thing needed for evil to flourish in the world is for good people to stand by and do nothing."
..... I believe this is such an important universal truth that every school should have it as it's motto.
Damn... now I'll have it stuck in my head too because it was on the tip of my tounge... now its gonna bug me hahahaha. Oh well... i like that quote. I also agree with you about the motto bit.

...
As individuals we can all make little differences. Just pick the way you are comfortable with. Do it when you can and have no guilt when you don't or can't. My personal belief is that if occasionally in your life you make a good difference in some one else's life, so that when things go bad for them they have a memory that reminds them things can be better, then your own life is validated. Sadly, I've failed to live up to my own belief far too often, but this is what it is to be human - flawed.

Good grief.. I never thought I'd live to see the day when I wish I were older. but, it has finally come! serioiusly though? i hate sitting around not doing anything. I feel useless. But, I cant volunteer much around here because I am wrapped up in cotton wool.. in that respect anyway. yay for inconsistent parenting. then again... they're human.

Soooooo, smorz ...
did Santa make nice to you this year. I hope so because it's good to be gifted lots of swooosh things. Your time will come to give to people who have very little, no worries.

In the New Year may God grant your fingers speed and nimbleness to rival Pagannini's (wasn't he reputed to have gotten his from the Opposition???)

Kevin

You could say he made nice to me this year... but he had no idea what to give me.. because I never had the courage to say what I wanted.. even though it prolly isnt ever gonna happen in the first place anyway haha. What about you?

By the way... its paganini =p
mind you... you have been way closer on the spelling than most people... and good on you for even knowing who paganini is! hardly anyone knows him, yet alone people like mendelssohn. tis an ignorant world sometimes.

smorz.

[k2hsharpe]

"I have never seen or heard of that movie.... should i have seen or heard of it?"

I'm sure I have a memory of a movie called 'The Bad Santa' or something like that. Starred Billy Bob Thornton, made by the Coen Brothers I think. You know, those cruel brothers who gave us 'O Brother Where Art Thou'. I hate that movie (O Brother ...). Gave me a raging fetish for Blue Grass music in general and the harmonies of American women's voices in particular. There is a CD called 'O Sister 2 - a women's collection of bluegrass' which is one of my current favourites.

Actually smorz, I'd like to confess. I need to confess. Just not sure you are the person I should be confessing to, you being so young my confession is probably illegal. WTF! I'll confess to you anyway.

smorz.
In the privacy of my own home,
and strictly as a consenting adult,
I like to dress up ...
in Fringed Buckskin jackets,
Tooled Leather Boots with Cuban heals
and Buck and Wing my way round the Kitchen.

Oh smorz,
I am so ashamed of myself.

There, I feel so much better now,
thank you for listening.

Where was I?
the movie, should you see it?
I can't remember except I think it was funny.
In parts.

"i hate sitting around not doing anything. I feel useless. But, I cant volunteer much around here because I am wrapped up in cotton wool.."

A year or so ago I heard about an Art School in East Timor. That country is so poor I decided I'd like to do something for them but I have very little money. So for the past 6 months or so, whenever I see art materials or books on sale I buy something, may only spend $5, maybe $20 at the most, but slowly it is starting to add up. Sometime next year I'll try and ship off a parcel to them. Won't be much, but it will be something. Smorz, you can always find something, you will when you're comfortable with it. You don't need to rush it. I was tempted to take Aggie round old folks homes as visitor but I don't drive and Aggie gets car sick anyway, can't have a beast that size chundering over the customers. I'll stick to paints and little artists mannequins I think.

"By the way... its paganini =p"

I thought it didn't look right, so I Googled him. Got a few web pages for Pagannini, so few I thought this was odd. They all must have been put up by idiots like me who can't spell.
lololol
BTW do you think he sold his soul to the Devil in exchange for speed and dexterity or was it just the flat finger board of his violin??

Re: Mr Mendlessohn, was that Moses the elder or bloody Felix the younger? I'll assume Felix and confess again to you. Haven't really spent much time with Felix, don't know him at all. Should I do you think? What is it about him that you like. Is he a romantic perhaps??
My taste runs more to Albinoni (his Adagio for Organ / Strings is all time biggie for me, collaborated with someone else was it??) and of course Pachabel, Bach, Vivaldi etc. The boring old standard cliches. Though I suppose they all came earlier than your Mendelssohn. Was Mozart a contemporary of his? Probably not, still too early?? Even so, I'll throw in the 'Allegri Miserere'. One of the most beautiful pieces ever written for human voices in my opinion. Yes, I know - it predates Mozart by a century (or 2?), and was (not surpisingly) written by some one else but ... I love the fact that Mozart stole the bloody thing from the Vatican so in my mind it will always be part his. What about Beethoven? Am I getting close to Mendelssohns time? Is it the "Emperor's Suite'?? What has that quiet piano section in the middle??? I absolutely love that bloody thing. You know the one, lots of nothing but isolated piano notes, surrounded by the best negative space never found on a painting. Whenever I hear it I'm reminded of waking up in the morning after the night has been filled with raging storm, only to find the perfect silence of a white world and realizing the gale was a snow storm. God I love that, the morning after and the music. Bugger it, last but not least. Mr Orff. Carmina Burana. What a ripper!

You know, I think I could develop a passion for Flamenco. Have you ever seen Carlos Saura's 'Carmen'? The part where they are rehearsing the scene in the tobacco factory (?) has to have my vote for the most exciting movie scene ever. Nothing comes even remotely close, even if it is a shallow trick of syncopation or something.

Smorz, you just gave me a musical hour or so, am listening to the Miserie thingy on my lappie at the moment. Seriously misnamed I suspect
lol

Gotta go, gotta do something productive to see the old year out
Kevin

[k2hsharpe]

smorz

you rekindled my enthusiasm
have spent the last couple of days listening to the Miserere,
haven't listened to it for a few year.
I have the Tallis Scholars version, recorded in some Oxford chapel.
It is sooo good, no wonder the Vatican wanted to keep it to themselves.
Do you like it, or does it not appeal to you?

Kevin

[smorzando]

To be honest? 'I shall confess' and say I have never been a big fan of vocal stuff.. tending to gravitate towards instrumental pieces, and piano and strings. Although you never know... it may grow on me. =)

Glad to know I've rekindled your intrest... because now you've kindled mine in Miserere haha.

smorz.

[k2hsharpe]

Smorz,

if you have never heard it, shall I try to send a zip file of it to you?
not sure I know how but would be willing to give it a go.
I'm not a fan at all of Choral, but this piece is one of the most beautiful vocal things I've heard. Actually, I was for a while keen on Byzantine Chants, which is odd since I rarely if ever find joy in Gregorian. Let me know if I should try to send it

Kevin

[smorzando]

send away.. i'm curious haha

[k2hsharpe]

will try

[k2hsharpe]

smorz

it's on it's way
Tried 3 x to compress it using WinZip
but each time I ended up with a Zip file same size as the uncompressed MP3 - bloody thing obviously dislikes me.
I dunno, it's either that
or Folks are Dumm Where I Come From
so it'll probably take a fair while to download
sorry bout that

let me know if you like it or not?

Sorry smorz
cancelled the wretch, it will not compress and would take 30 minutes to download at least

[smorzando]

that's alright... i'll try to get it off somewhere else then. thankyou anyway. =)

:hug:

smorz.

[Mr. Blocks]

First I'd like to say sorry for not reading through all the post, but i read enough to know what my reply would be like, so here:

Christmas IS commerical. You can't dispute it, no matter what you all think christmas means to you.

It is about (for kids) getting presents. It's "suppose" to be an event with religious ties, yet i never heard a mention of anything religious when christmas comes about. The idea of Chritmas has become something in which companies use to make a lot of money at the same time each year.

"For me, Christmas is about making sure the ones I love know they are loved. So for me, no."

The funny thing about that is, i see it a lot. But what does it mean? You've been worked into thinking that you need this day in order to show your love. Why do you choose to spend a lot for Christmas day of all days? It's because your being told it's a day that you should be doing that. It's all a commerical ploy.

If you love your family, then you needn't have to wait until Chritmas to show it to them. And i can imagine this day being a day of which is eacy to show it to them, because each of us will expect it from those we love.
But if you can't see it's the fact you all wait until CHRISTMAS day to get them loads of things and express your love, AT THE SAME TIME as everyone else in the country..

You can't tell me it isn't commerical. Your being programmed into using the 25th as a day of expressing love by the media. It is commerical, your just missing the point. And it is commerical because you choose this day to express the love.

Sorry to repeat myself a few times, but i have to try and make my point clear.

It's like Valentines day, a day of which we are told we should get something for the one we love. It's a commerical load of nonsense. I told my love i wasn't getting her anything and she respected that. I will choose a day that actually means something to ME and HER before i buy her something to express me love for her. I won't be told by the media when i should be doing such things.

The mdeais doesn't care why you do it, they just care that you DO do it. Your handing them money, you've been programmed into thinking it's fine.

[Sciuroid]

Easy there, Morphy P. Of course, businesses have gotten the green-light from society to just go crazy with the merchandise. The reason they're able to pull this off is mostly tradition. Valentine's Day isn't what it is just because the media says so - it's not like it just popped out of nowhere. Its cultural significance is what makes it "worth it" to so many people.

So yeah, Christmas is too commercial. But it's still Christmas. And if that really means something to you, then you'll find a way to duck under the wall of plastic inflatable lit-up Santas and see something worth grasping. Remember: before it was commercial, it was Christmas.

[waywardgirl]

This makes me think of Matthew Good. "Things just keep getting weirder and weirder cause Christmas is for shopping, and the shopping God is everything."

[Mr. Blocks]

Easy there, Morphy P. Of course, businesses have gotten the green-light from society to just go crazy with the merchandise. The reason they're able to pull this off is mostly tradition. Valentine's Day isn't what it is just because the media says so - it's not like it just popped out of nowhere. Its cultural significance is what makes it "worth it" to so many people.

So yeah, Christmas is too commercial. But it's still Christmas. And if that really means something to you, then you'll find a way to duck under the wall of plastic inflatable lit-up Santas and see something worth grasping. Remember: before it was commercial, it was Christmas.

My friend you are in contradiction to yourself.

To every rule there may very well be exceptions, and i would probably count you to be one of those in terms of what it is we are talking about. But from what i have seen with my own eyes is that most people don't even understand what Chritmas is SUPPOSE to be. I mean here in England more than half of the people here aren't even religious, yet Christmas still thrives.

It USED to be a festival of meaning, though my point is to say than NOW it has been taken over and been made into something quite different.

I myself don't duck under what it is now due to the fact I couldn't care less about Jesus and those stories. They mean nothing to me personally, but that is irelevant, my point stands.

Ask people where both Chritmas and Valentines day came from, I am sure MOST of them will not be able to tell you exactly how they came to be. Therefore i am sorry to say your point is just not valid amongst the majority.

Just because there are a few that do hold it for it's better meaning, doesn't mean that it isn't commercial still amongst the most of us.

Oh, and the reason Chritmas has been taken over so easily and is still very acceptable i because people just allow it, simply allow it.

You also agreed that Chritmas is commercial, which is the point i was making in the first place, doesn't really matter that is it "still Chritmas", it is no longer used for the meaning it was given way back when it first came about. And so i am forced to believe that it is far too comercial these days.

[Sciuroid]

"And if that really means something to you, then you'll find a way to duck under the wall of plastic inflatable lit-up Santas and see something worth grasping."

Did I say everybody? No. Did I say most people? No. What I'm saying is that to call it completely lost is overkill.

[Pandora]

It's the way of things I'm afraid. When ever you have a national event, the corporations will jump onto the bandwagon. It's not necessarily their fault, they just go where the money is, it's the people of the developed world who need to realise there are bigger problems in life than what to buy Auntie Maggie for Christmas.

I do appreciate the people who say that the Holdiays are about love and their family though, that what truly great holidays should be about.

[Mr. Blocks]

"And if that really means something to you, then you'll find a way to duck under the wall of plastic inflatable lit-up Santas and see something worth grasping."

Did I say everybody? No. Did I say most people? No. What I'm saying is that to call it completely lost is overkill.

Did I say everybody? No. Did I say the majority? Yes. With what you say there I agree with, but it's not actually what I was getting at. I can understand that for some people it still has the meaning for what it was created. I was only ever talking about the majority, I never said I was talking for a complete amount.

My point stands, Christmas is too commerical. I answered that question. And it is for the reasons I posted. Just because a minority of people still hold it for the reason is was created, doesn't count toward it not being "too commercial".

If the majoiry of people buy into it simply because the media plays it to us from a set age and the most people can ever say about Christmas is "Jesus was born" then I am sorry to say that the Corps have taken over and exploited what it should be to celebrate Christmas.

As for Valentines day, it has it's tradition. But again perhaps something I do not follow because it doesn't mean anything to me personally. And it's the same thing, people don't know what it means and go with it because they are told to do so by outside influencies. Which makes the whole idea void of it's purpose and historical meaning, the same goes for Christmas as I have explained.

A sad fact indeed, but fact it is.

Answer: Yes, Christmas is too commercial.