As Many Possibilities as the Stars

[Silver Wind]

Who has determined that there can be only one possible afterlife?

How is it the religions have come to get the idea that there can only be and must only be one single answer, one correct possibilities. Can there not be multiple answers and multiple possibilities.

What is this obsession with being "right" and everyone else being wrong. What true purpose does this serve?

If we look around us. There is not only one possible planet. There is not only the Earth, there are many other planets as well. There is not only one possible and one single moon. Other planets have their own moons, some even have multiple moons. There is not only one possible galaxy, there are many infinite possible galaxies. Our sun is not the only single sun. Every star is a sun within its own right.

So than why cannot there be more than one possible afterlife?

Why cannot Valhalla, Heaven, Nirvana, Paradise, the Elysian Fields, and the list goes on, all co-exist together.

Who says that we must all come to the same end when we die. Perhaps we all go exactly where we want to go when we die. Perhaps all religions are equally valid, are equally right on their own accord.

If you look at the earth itself, everything comes in multiples and diversity. There is not only one kind of tree, one kind of flower, one kind of bird. There are many different types. Just as there are many different types of people. Perhaps different people believe different things because there are also many different realities, many different realms.

How is it that religion must come to be treated as one big contest in which there is in the end an ultimate winner?

There is a Hindu proverb I have always been found of which states "There is more than one path to lead up to the same mountaintop"

But you know what, there are also many different mountaintops.

[Nature's heartbeat]

Hi Silver Wind! This is a very interesting thread and I hope people will share their thoughts about what you wrote.

Personally I believe that the world religions all come from the same Source, and are like different chapters of the same book, all shedding some light over this mysterious Holy Source that I believe has created us all out of love, and hence each one of us can be a potential reflection of this love and holiness, and each of those books are holy because they come from the same Source. Since He/She/whatever name we choose to call this mysterious Source (language is too limited to try to express the Unlimited and Unexpressible) has created all of us with a free will, each has a choice to live in harmony with the Golden Rule of treating your neighbour as you would want him/her to treat you (which can probably be found in every religious tradition) and other teachings (that each came down at a particular time and place and hence might have been most suited for that time and that place) or not...But the question is why these traditions were sent down to us in the first place? Personally I believe that they were sent to us to help us people (all of us) improve ourselves, and to create better living conditions for all-and not just for a few-, and were sent to mankind at times in history that were particularly dark when we had forgotten all about this true core of religion and needed a reminder.)..and so, calling people things like "believers", "non-believers", "heathens" or "apostates", I don't think helps do that...It only creates division and disunity...How could I or any person for that matter ever decide who is a believer and who isn't? Only this Source could who knows all the facts...And there are many ways to show belief...in respect towards people of different views than oneself, in showing kindness to animals and taking care of nature, in being kind and compassionate to those in need, in loving people when it's so hard because they might've hurt us so much, in being of some service to those whose paths we cross, in trying to be more peaceful and loving in one's own surroundings, in cheering people up, in being thankful, truthful etc...

I've had my share of people telling me things like *only my religion is right and all others wrong* (and hence saying that my religion ((the Bahá'í Faith) is wrong), and *I pray for you*...and *if you would believe*...and saying bad things despite being a Bahá'í means to believe that Moses, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Muhammed etc were all sent from the same Source and that this Source since He/She etc loves us, will not leave us without guidance, and so from my perspective it's weird if a Christian wants me to believe in Jesus, because I already do, and I believe that He has returned as well..and to a Muslim, I already believe in Muhammed...I just don't believe that He was the last messenger from our Creator but that two more has come since, and that more will come in the future)...but I've also got friends of different religious and non-religious backgrounds who are respectful, and I think it's really good to talk to people with different perspectives. The danger comes when we only associate with those we believe believe the same as we do...and start thinking that only we are right and all others wrong...It's not our job to judge each other...Life is hard enough as it is already...I can honestly say that some of my friends who don't want to belong to any religion in their lives are living more in accordance with the Golden Rule than some religious people I know...and respect other people's views more...Your perspective may be as right as any other's...Thanks for sharing it! :)

[Nobody]

We read a book in german class once, called "Nathan der Weise" (Translation: Nathan the wise)

There was a short story within it that described the following, to be applied to religion:

There was once a man, in posession of a ring, that had the power to make it's owner unbelievably charismatic and he would also look as young as he did, the day the ring fell into his posession as long as he wore it.

But the decay of his body would remain the same. It did not add any extra years to those, that he had left. When he was ready to pass on into an afterlife, he was to pass the ring on to his dearest son (he had three). So he went far away to a goldsmith, to create duplicates of the ring, because he could not decide which son he should give it to...after all he loved them all the same. He gave the three rings to his sons, that knew which powers it posessed, but ended up arguing, which of them had the real ring. They never wore it, because they all were so obsessed with convincing the brothers of their being in posession of the "true" ring. At last, they all died as old withered uncharismatic fools.

(I'm not sure how well I explained the story, but I think everyone gets what I was trying to tell.)

So in conclusion:

The three eldest religions are possibilities, as to what may happen in an afterlife, but no-one's paying attention to the fact, that they could be wrong. There 'may' be one true religion, but everyone's so worked up with fighting about who's actually right, that they lose focus of what really does count:

The belief. As long as you have your belief, it matters not, who or what may stand in your way, as long as you are convinced, you are right, there is no need to force others away from their beliefs, just so you have the security of saying: "More people believe in what I believe in."

[Yog]

Why does there even need to be an afterlife? Honestly, what's the purpose? Are people so afraid of death that they can't accept that there might be anything else? Do commands and morals have to be externalized into dieties, angels, demons and a fight for souls? I don't even get the whole preoccupation with an afterlife to even care why people are fighting over which one might be correct. Who cares if there is one and if there is why care if you are wrong? Does being wrong about a guess at an afterlife automatically condemn an everliving soul to eternal damnation? Who comes up with these rules?

[Nobody]

Why does there even need to be an afterlife? Honestly, what's the purpose? Are people so afraid of death that they can't accept that there might be anything else? Do commands and morals have to be externalized into dieties, angels, demons and a fight for souls? I don't even get the whole preoccupation with an afterlife to even care why people are fighting over which one might be correct. Who cares if there is one and if there is why care if you are wrong? Does being wrong about a guess at an afterlife automatically condemn an everliving soul to eternal damnation? Who comes up with these rules?

Whatmakes you not care?

Maybe what makes you think the whole concept is so stupid, is the same thought, that makes someone else believe in it so damn hard.

I personally don't care if there's an afterlife or not. But I acknowledge the fact, that it's possible and enjoy thinking about what it may be like, or maybe even what it may not be like.

I mean, life in itself is pointless aswell. So why not try and pretend there might be some point in living this life? (I see that an afterlife would be just as pointless, but what the hay.)

[Yog]

No you see, we are here, now. That in itself is point in living this life. You don't give up on what you have. The afterlife however is pure conjecture. There is nothing to suggest it even exists. I mean if you are just having fun with the concept then that's one thing, that's exploration and enjoyment. But the concept of damning someone else to eternity just because they hold different beliefs is well, rediculous, especially when there might not even be an afterlife.

What I find appalling is not that there might be an afterlife, I really don't care. What disturbs me is what people do with the concept and the vehemence with which they fight over it. I mean do you get an extra cookie for fighting so hard about it? Does your virgin total go from 70 to 71 for the little extra argument? It all seems to me like fighting over which myth is the right myth.

[Gardenhead]

No you see, we are here, now. That in itself is point in living this life. You don't give up on what you have. The afterlife however is pure conjecture. There is nothing to suggest it even exists. I mean if you are just having fun with the concept then that's one thing, that's exploration and enjoyment. But the concept of damning someone else to eternity just because they hold different beliefs is well, rediculous, especially when there might not even be an afterlife.

What I find appalling is not that there might be an afterlife, I really don't care. What disturbs me is what people do with the concept and the vehemence with which they fight over it. I mean do you get an extra cookie for fighting so hard about it? Does your virgin total go from 70 to 71 for the little extra argument? It all seems to me like fighting over which myth is the right myth.

I'm pretty much with you on this one. (but note that what follows is further expansion of my own, so don't feel like I'm putting words in your mouth!)

I find religion - and especially the idea of an afterlife - a bit absurd, not to mention purely academic. What we have is what we have, and it's precious because it is - I don't see wasting time on what in all probability is imaginary helps anybody. Even supposing an afterlife does exist, it should be reserved for after life; there's no point agonizing over its possibilities now.

Fantasizing and imagining is another thing entirely - it can be a hoot to play around with the ideas. But serious faith stinks to me of denial, fetishisation, defense mechanisms, imaginings founded on the need to be comforted. Faith - to me - is an understandable, but ultimately ridiculous concept. I don't mean to sound venomous, but such is the nature of the beast in a debate like this.

What is important to understand is I'm not saying nothing good can come from religion. It would be obscene to call it the exclusive or prime source of anything good, right, or moral however.

But there I don't want to open up another huge swathe of debatable gubbins.

The main point I want to get across is: there is no point. No point in squabbling, no point in supposing, certainly no point in establishing concrete rules. I wouldn't disallow anyone their faith (though I may criticize it), but the clashes of faiths are beyond idiocy.

[Silver Wind]

No you see, we are here, now. That in itself is point in living this life. You don't give up on what you have. The afterlife however is pure conjecture. There is nothing to suggest it even exists. I mean if you are just having fun with the concept then that's one thing, that's exploration and enjoyment. But the concept of damning someone else to eternity just because they hold different beliefs is well, rediculous, especially when there might not even be an afterlife.

What I find appalling is not that there might be an afterlife, I really don't care. What disturbs me is what people do with the concept and the vehemence with which they fight over it. I mean do you get an extra cookie for fighting so hard about it? Does your virgin total go from 70 to 71 for the little extra argument? It all seems to me like fighting over which myth is the right myth.



In your statements are not ultimately damning everyone who does believe in an afterlife?

I have no problem with the concept of Atheism but what I do have a problem with is why so many of them are hypocrites. Most Atheists are just as fanatical about their non-belief as Christians are about their belief and that is what pisses me off.

If a person does not want to believe that is fine, but many Atheists are just as disrespectful, insulting, and condemning to anyone who does believe in something as Christians are of anyone who believes anything differently than they do.

Many Atheists seem to want to force non-belief on the populace in the exact same way that Christians want to force their own belief. They are not any more open-minded as they truly claim to be and they have the same attitude of thinking they are the only ones who are right.

By insulting anyone who might believe in an afterlife is no different or better than fighting over what afterlife may or may not be correct.

[Yog]

I am not an athiest. I never said there wasn't an afterlife. I did say that it is pure conjecture. This doesn't mean there isn't one. It just means there is no proof of one. Second, I can't damn anyone to anything because I don't know if there is anything to be damned to. Damnation implies a whole judeo-christian mindset about the afterlife or at least a belief in a good afterlife and a bad one. I couldn't tell you if there is either. I do think that any discussion about an afterlife needs to begin long before what it is and back up to is there an afterlife.

It's like a discussion on God. The arguments for a God are just as compelling as arguments against there being a God. I think it's this fact alone which makes it such an emotional topic. Reason must necessarily be removed from the process which leaves arguments based in faith and emotion. The result is staunch belief in a single position without a reason for it. I could also argue that you have posited as single-minded a proposition as the Christians by positing a world where all afterlives are equally valid. This becomes your after-life view and yours alone. I would also believe that this view is neither any more valid or any less valid than any other postuations about an afterlife. It is what it is. But what if there is no afterlife and all the time we spend here on earth preparing for it is just a waste of time? Could time spent focusing on an afterlife be better spent on making this world a better place? Perhaps this is the real point of a belief in an afterlife. It could be a staunch belief that this world sucks and there must be something better on the other side of the veil.

[m_b]

I have no problem with the concept of Atheism but what I do have a problem with is why so many of them are hypocrites. Most Atheists are just as fanatical about their non-belief as Christians are about their belief and that is what pisses me off.

Are they? I mean, i know there have been some 'fanatical' atheists; (Professor Richard Dawkins or Friedrich Nietzsche spring to mind) but if it's fanaticism you're looking for, i'd say the christians/muslims...etc win over every time. Atheists don't tend to meet up in a ceremonial building one day every week to reinforce their beliefs. Nor do they tend to inform their beliefs about the world by referring to the same book (that has been reinterpreted beyond almost all recognition from the original) for their whole lives.

I think there's been a backlash against religion recently which has left a lot of christians feeling persecuted, partly due to the fanaticism and political clout of the US 'religious right' (and what their support of the Bush administration has led to) and partly because of a spate of bestselling books like 'The God Delusion', 'God Is Not Great'...etc where a handful of authors arguably 'want to force non-belief on the populace in the exact same way that Christians want to force their own belief.'

As for an afterlife, I reckon that if we put as much passion into the significance of this life as some Christians and Muslims do with the afterlife, the world might be a better place. Like Nietzsche said, 'The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad'

[Silver Wind]

Atheists can have the same close-mindedness as Christians do. Perhaps they don't meet in churches but they have just as much of a tendency to think that "I am right and everyone else is wrong" Just as well in the same way the Christians think everyone should just become Christians there are atheists who have the mentality that no one should ever have any spiritual beliefs.

Atheists can be just as militant in Christians in what they think is "right" and "wrong" and have the mentality of anyone who does believe in anything is ignorant and I should in enlighten them so they will think like I do.

I have seen some of the debates Atheists have, and they can be just as forceful and disrespectful and insulting as Christians are. As well as just as unwilling to listen to any other point of view.

Atheists can annoy me just as much as Christians can, and it is not because of what they do or do not believe but because of how they present themselves.

[yusu77]

intersting subject thax for sharing , between for me i think the one who is fllown a religion , but he seek and he try to know about other religions and at the end he is conviced that this religions is the right religion that he is in the right path however is this the religion .....AND THE ONE WHO DON4T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT OTHGERS RELIGIONS and even don't know well the religion he fellow then for me he is not in the right path however this this this religion.i feel so ad when e fllow the religion of our parents why ? cus it'sthe religion of our parents , when u ask parents they will say cus it's the religion of our grandparents ...........i think this sooooo stupid , we need to seek search and understand respect all religiosn nd try to know more and more bout them than choos WISH WITH WE FEEL BETTER ....
well at the end i can just say that just God can Judge

[m_b]

i feel so ad when e fllow the religion of our parents why ? cus it'sthe religion of our parents , when u ask parents they will say cus it's the religion of our grandparents ...........i think this sooooo stupid , we need to seek search and understand respect all religiosn nd try to know more and more bout them than choos WISH WITH WE FEEL BETTER ....


I agree as, i suspect, many Israeli's and Palestinians would agree with you, not to mention southern and northern Irish citizens. Inherited prejudice (religious or otherwise) is like a social form of cancer; something to be eradicated.

[yusu77]

I agree as, i suspect, many Israeli's and Palestinians would agree with you, not to mention southern and northern Irish citizens. Inherited prejudice (religious or otherwise) is like a social form of cancer; something to be eradicated.

thank u for share with me my opinion , nice from you , mm yeah well we all ' ( generaly speaking ) we need to respect each otther blieve , and how is it's religions , persennloly i am Muslum ,and i have nothing against Jews i love them alll cus they ar ehuman and i have some jew friends , and friends from all religions i don' care about that what i care for is if they are good persons and Good friends that is all , but well the problem between Israil and Palestine is not a problem of religion , yeah there is lot person who try to make like that , the problem is a problem of Land .......well i don't want to enter in a politique discore hhhh ....
mm thank you for the sharing
God bless
Yusuf

[leo]

what isn't a poem?

[Mr. Blocks]

I don't have the time right now to check through this. I added my thoughts on what you said, it would be interesting to see your reply. We obviously don't see things in the same way.

Who has determined that there can be only one possible afterlife?

How is it the religions have come to get the idea that there can only be and must only be one single answer, one correct possibilities. Can there not be multiple answers and multiple possibilities.

I'm trying to understand what it is you are saying. What I say might not make sense, but I'll write anyway.

Humans in general I believe, can only believe that there is one single answer for everything. There is one truth, since how could we comprehend two truths for one thing, when the two truths disagree with each other? It can't be possible, logically. I dare say there is nothing that would actually disagree with that either.

What is this obsession with being "right" and everyone else being wrong. What true purpose does this serve?


The purpose is progression. You can take 10 people who are trying to figure out how to use laser propelling technology, where none of them have yet figured out how to use it, and all also disagree with the information the others have found. The only way the technology is going to work, is if someone figures it out. If all of them refuse to use the information the others are using, then you are going to find that only one of them will figure out how to use the technology.

It's actually flawed in a way, since the ignorance can cause misinformation where the answer will never be found.

I think I'm seeing the question differently now. Why do we human have to be right. I think on topic, it can only be the religious who feel that way, since what they know can't be disproved, it's simply faith. The only thought I know of that willingly accepts being wrong is actually science. The only way we will progress is if we are willing to accept that we aren't right. I'm an atheist, and I'd love to be proven to be wrong, I know I have to be open minded enough to accept when what I think just can not be.

Can you imagine believing something your entire life, with no doubt that it's true, and then accepting it's false? I think humans are greatly in denial about their thoughts and what they believe. And we willingly refuse to listen to other view because we are okay to live believing we are right.

If we look around us. There is not only one possible planet. There is not only the Earth, there are many other planets as well. There is not only one possible and one single moon. Other planets have their own moons, some even have multiple moons. There is not only one possible galaxy, there are many infinite possible galaxies. Our sun is not the only single sun. Every star is a sun within its own right.

So than why cannot there be more than one possible afterlife?

We can explain why there are many moons, many stars, many planets, but you are comparing something we know, against something we do not.

It's not impossible that there is more than one afterlife, just like it's not impossible that I might exist somewhere else in another universe. It's fantasy until we can prove otherwise. I feel as though it's a question that doesn't need an answer.

Why cannot Valhalla, Heaven, Nirvana, Paradise, the Elysian Fields, and the list goes on, all co-exist together.

Who says that we must all come to the same end when we die. Perhaps we all go exactly where we want to go when we die. Perhaps all religions are equally valid, are equally right on their own accord.


Perhaps we don't even exist at all, perhaps we are all robotic androids, perhaps we live in a computer simulation controlled by advanced beings, perhaps this entire world is coming from within my own mind and nothing actually exists.

Do you see what you are doing? It can be said with anything, but what is the point? Perhaps religions are made up? Perhaps they aren't.

They can't both be equally valid and then most of them are nonsense at the same time. It's either "they are equally valid" or "they aren't equally valid".

If you look at the earth itself, everything comes in multiples and diversity. There is not only one kind of tree, one kind of flower, one kind of bird. There are many different types. Just as there are many different types of people. Perhaps different people believe different things because there are also many different realities, many different realms.


Let's take evolution, as an example. There was a time where life was few and very simple. Over time it became complex and vast, as it is now. Does that mean that they can't possibly come from the same place, because there are so many? Not really.

You use "perhaps" a lot. You can't do much good with "perhaps". Perhaps you are just thinking freely in your own head, perhaps you are even right. Perhaps I won't be alive tomorrow. Perhaps this really isn't useful.

How is it that religion must come to be treated as one big contest in which there is in the end an ultimate winner?


Human nature. Why is it that there are rich and poor people? Why is it people eat enough to become overweight, when other people don't eat enough and die? Why is it people can't agree that everyone is right, when difference answers are given? I see it as a question that answers itself.


There is a Hindu proverb I have always been found of which states "There is more than one path to lead up to the same mountaintop"

But you know what, there are also many different mountaintops.

You sort of missed the point of the proverb.



I have no problem with the concept of Atheism but what I do have a problem with is why so many of them are hypocrites. Most Atheists are just as fanatical about their non-belief as Christians are about their belief and that is what pisses me off.

The same argument applies to those of a religious background. There is nothing much you can do when you have people who think a certain way, it's natural for them to want to have more people heard what they have. Complaining about it doesn't really hold any value. It used to annoy me, but when you think about it, what do you honestly expect?

If a person does not want to believe that is fine, but many Atheists are just as disrespectful, insulting, and condemning to anyone who does believe in something as Christians are of anyone who believes anything differently than they do.

Yes, people are people, not matter what they believe.

Many Atheists seem to want to force non-belief on the populace in the exact same way that Christians want to force their own belief. They are not any more open-minded as they truly claim to be and they have the same attitude of thinking they are the only ones who are right.


What do you mean by "open-minded" ? If you see someone in the street stealing from a shop, is it not your natural urge to stop them from doing it? That is all this is, if someone believes they are right (in the atheistic case, they have evidence to support what they say) then they are not going to keep it to themselves. In fact, it is a human trait to educate and pass on knowledge, one of the reasons we as a species are so successful.

"only ones who are right". When different groups of people have ideas that oppose the other, then they can't all be right. If you think they can, then you aren't being logical. Logically, two ideas that oppose each other can not both be right about the same thing.

1 + 2 can be 3, but 1 + 3 can't be.

By insulting anyone who might believe in an afterlife is no different or better than fighting over what afterlife may or may not be correct.

I don't see how you managed to come out with that. Insulting someone, and disagreeing with them are not on the same level are they?

[Mr. Blocks]

It could be a staunch belief that this world sucks and there must be something better on the other side of the veil.

It's the same as when people say things like "well, the world isn't perfect".

The reason it is isn't perfect is because people say stupid things like that. It's almost as though people have given up on finding a great happiness now, and believe they won't find that until they die.

You can believe you will live once you die, that's fine.

You can also believe it's impossible that you can die, it doesn't mean you won't die. You can believe you are right, but in reality you are wrong.

I can believe that what I know is correct, it doesn't mean I'm right.