Terry Pratchett on assisted suicide

[spark]

I just finished watching an extremely moving programme on BBC (will be available on iplayer) presented by Terry Pratchett on the controversial topic of assisted suicide.

As it turns out my family with whom I watched it have quite mixed views on the idea of assisted suicide. which fuelled an interesting debate, and i was wondering as a group of 'thinkers and feelers' which I like to think of this forum what other peoples' view was.

The head of Dignitas who was interviewed in the programme seemed to think of assisted suicide as nothing more than observing the right of self determination. I think i agree with this and as an agnostic (best word to describe myself i suppose...) I don't feel subjugated to god or anything else. however I'm extremely grateful for life, though perhaps grateful is not the right word because i don't know who I’m grateful to (besides parents of course) and feel a commitment to shape and enjoy my life.

Anyway I'd like to hear peoples thought on the topic

edit: after looking around, perhaps i chose the wrong sub-forum, admins feel free to move

[BenJohnson]

I haven't seen the program though I'll seek it out on iplayer. I believe under certain circumstances that assisted suicide is the right thing. In cases where a person is terminally ill and will at a certain point in their life merely suffer with little enjoyment they should be able to chose to die with dignity and much less suffering. We practice this kindness towards animals why not towards those we love.

[hiderinthebutterbox]

I really want to comment on this but I read somewhere about the Dignitas sanitorium and it was a whistleblower story.It made for harrowing reading and totally made me rethink my stance on that particular organisation although fundementally I believe in the right of choice.As in abortion and the pro-choice (a womans body belongs to the woman) then the same ideal should be claimed by terminally and or chronically ill people. thier body belongs to them too.Why should this choice only be given to women whose body is housing potential life.

I am rather against the medicalisation of death. I would much rather be attended by a family member than a doctor in my final hours. Terry Pratchetts dream of ending his life in his garden with a brompton cocktail on a sunny day with birdsong and his favorite music playing sounds much nicer to me than some gruesome swiss clinic.


I will try and find the story and info I read regarding dignitas.But for now there is this to consider

http://www.hc2d.co.uk/content.php?contentId=15371

[BattyOldMaid]

It's too easy to pass judgement on people who have opted to end their life. I can understand the logic behind it, if pain is something people don't want to suffer right to the end, or wanting to maintain dignity if they know their illness will get worse.

Like all things, there are people out there who will abuse this for their own gains, overburdened children, financial gains, expendures (care homes for elderly and disabled children) cost so much. And, misunderstanding/communication breakdown.

[BenJohnson]

A good link Hider.

Under the new rules, patients would have to provide evidence from two independent doctors that their illness is incurable, that they have only months to live, and that they have made an informed and considered decision to end their own lives.


I'm surprised that wasn't already the case. It seems very opened ended at the moment.

[Don_Joe]

I'm on Pratchetts side. I also agree with everyone else's opinions defending the right of assisted death.

Who says you can't take your life? What makes it so wrong? What difference is there between jumping off a building, taking too many pills, etc. And being assisted to die by a professional and family? You have made your choice, you are going to die, why suffer the consequences of a terminal illness, why go through all the pain?

I'm surprised because surely all these people who are vegetables connected to machines are a big drain on the governments money.

I don't understand. It's just one of these things that doesn't make sense, yet the fact of the matter is right in front of us.

[BattyOldMaid]

People on life support machine still have rights. It's up to them to decide what they want, doctors tend to promote the switching off life support, and families tend to fight against that decision. It's a personal choice, we should have independent choices that tailor made for individuals, they decide on what they want, when they want. Rather than one size fits all.

[Ghetto Poet]

As someone whose own mum committed suicide I wish with all my heart I had known how depressed and in pain she was and that she so desperately wanted to end her life. I would have loved the time to celebrate her life what was before she got ill and the time we had together after before she got too ill. I never believed or even had a view on assisted suicide until this happened and after having watched other close family members die in terrible pain or so drugged up they didn't know who we are, I think this is the kindest way to help those you love. Obviously there would have to be measures in place for this to happen but hopefully it would save others going through the guilty feelings & grief my sisters and I were left with because we couldn't/wouldn't help her. It took a long time to get over her death and the stigma attached to a suicide. So yup am all for it.

[BattyOldMaid]

I am sorry for your loss. A friend opted to end his life, he was depressed. Not a day goes by I don't think of him, and can appreciate how difficult it must be, a mother.

[hiderinthebutterbox]

My niece was my daughters best friend, they were absolutely like sisters and shared everything.

My niece was 32 when she hung herself 2 years ago.

The hurt, devastation, anguish and pain she caused everyone who loved her was immense.
As her aunt I was sad and devastated, but for the pain, blood hurting, breath taking, bone aching soul taking pain it caused my daughter , I found it so hard to not be so angry with her too.
For hurting my daughter in such a profound and deeply disturbing and life changing way.

However it was my husband who put it into some sort of understanding for my daughter and myself and eventually I think we grasped and understood.He explained it this way.
My niece had made this decision for herself, it was what she wanted/needed to do. She had no control over so much of her life that even though we could not and never will agree with her decision, she gained something from taking control of her death. She did not speak to my daughter about her desire to die as she seriously did not want to be saved and she knew my daughter would try and save her.

We will never know what drove her to it, but we have to respect her choice to die and we can move forward knowing that this was her decision , her choice, her life , her death.
Who are we to take that choice from her.

She was not mentally ill, if she had been I would have a very different reaction, and would and do believe that people with mental health issues and illness or poor or enduring mental health problems cannot make that choice objectively due to the nature of their illness.

But someone with poor or enduring physical illness can .... and have every right to make choices for their own body , their own life, indeed, their own death.

The last act of love we can offer is to respect that and allow it and then hopefully it does not have to be the lonely and brutal way my niece felt was her only option.

RIP, MEL 1977 -2009 "Safe in the arms of angels"


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[bastet]

this is such a complicated issue.
i agree and empathise with so much that has already been said-and we all can only talk from our personal experiences..
i have had to accept animals being put to sleep when the suffering or outlook was impossible.
i have had freinds attempt and succeed with suicide
i have lost loved ones
-the only thing i have to say really is that i spent a week in hospital-day and night with my mum in 2oo6, after several long previous hospitals stays with copd-emphysemia.
the last 48hours she was on a morphine pump..her extremities were turning black, she couldnt communicate, i dont know if she was aware i was there..her organs and veins failing systematically. they used pumps to suck the fluid from her lungs. she was drowning.
i begged them to help her..how you would an injured animal.
no-one could..not their fault.
i dont say this for sympathy just to explain that if it had been an option..and if my mum had known what would happen..then she would have wanted to take that option.
but you dont know these things will unless you have a longterm prognosis of certain situations.
..sorry-dont really know where i am going with this now :( ..but-terrible as it is- i would want there to be some relief the suffering of one i love in that situation.

[saeity]

My dad entered a hospice and lasted seven long nights and days heavily pumped with morthine unable to communicate.He was placed on something called the liverpool pathway careplan.This meant all food and fluids withdrawn(basically starved to death).I personally feel given the choice most people would choose another option.

[The Unknown Soldier]

If a person is of lucid mind and wishes to die, I see no reason why I, or anyone, should be allowed to deny them that.

It gets a bit more complicated when, say, they are unconscious and left no letter or document indicating what they would have wanted. At that point I believe it should be up to the person's close ones and family to decide what to do.