Is Nature Random?

[Captain Cosine]

I'm not sure how to word this one, but I'll try.

I was always taught that nature is random; it favors entropy and disorder. But I've been wondering, is nature breaking from our sense of "order" to dis-order, or it's own natural or higher order? You could say nature is random in that we cannot predict what will happen in certain systems with a great deal of accuracy, such as when Newton had trouble mathematically determining the movement and position of the Moon because it was a three body (Earth, Sun, Moon) problem. But to me, the fact that we don't fully understand the universe yet and all of it's forces is no reason to think it's random. We cannot predict what we don't fully understand yet. Maybe things break down and favor "randomness" because that is just the natural ORDER of things. If we fully understood the universe and all of it's forces and particles, would we still say the universe is random?

Perhaps I just misunderstand what I've been told. I don't get too in-depth when it comes to science because I absolutely abhor math and statistics and such.

[TroostAvenue]

I fear that, in the end, it's going to depend on the precise definition of the concept of random. In the usual sense of the word, and based on a career as a scientist, I'd say the universe probably is "random" because of the inherent uncertainty at its most basic level.

Of course, the answer also will depend on whether you're asking a physicist or a philosopher.

[Captain Cosine]

Well I think the concept of random will stay the same; no particular order. But does nature REALLY have no order, or just have one we can't comprehend yet?

[Captain Cosine]

I had another thought on this. If I were correct in saying that nature isn't random, and that there are just many forces and such we haven't figured out yet, and that would lead us to being able to predict anything and everything; wouldn't that also disprove the idea of free will? If we finally came to a full understanding of the mind and had a fully developed psychological theory, and knew how people are going to react to every little stimuli, then couldn't we predict what someone is going to do? Of course, then if you figured out everything you were supposed to do, couldn't you just go and do the opposite? Of course maybe even the contemplation of such an action would be found in the prediction, and this thinking will just go on forever. Or perhaps, like the particle-wave relation, if you tell someone what should happen, it could change, just like when you observe a wave it becomes a particle.

I haven't the slightest clue where to go from here, I'm not well versed in physics and only have some knowledge in psychology and philosophy.

Although, one could say consciousness is one thing that exists outside of the laws of nature; essentially making consciousness a "god." Something above the law is the only thing that could create the law, right? The use of logic springs from consciousness, can we force that logic back into consciousness to try and decide how consciousness acts? Or is consciousness i's own separate entity that produced logic to explain the "physical world" and this consciousness of ours is just using this physical body as a vessel, a way to bridge the gap, because if it weren't bound by nature, it would have to take over something that is. But, consciousness is also seemingly affected by the world around us, which is why as our moods change, so do our decisions. So then consciousness would be a part of nature.

That was mostly just thinking out loud. What do you guys think?

[cutequotes]

nature is 50% random.

you have control of it, but only on the other 50%.

it is like the dilemma of the free will. nothing is detement, everything is dynamic in this world. sometimes it fatal and sometimes it`s random.

[Mango]

Man has been asking this question almost forever. If you ask a theologian he will give you one answer, if you ask a physicist he will give you another, if you ask a philosopher you’ll get a third answer. It depends upon the persuasion of the individual that you ask.
I for one have no idea what the true answer is. In my opinion my dog probably knows as much about the truth as I do. I think that we are totally ignorant of the truth of what reality truly is.
For instance, Einstein’s theory of relativity opened the door to the possibility of time travel. Einstein was not happy about that. He wanted everything to be well order and this threw a curve into the mix.
Imagine, if you will, that time travel is a real thing. We already understand how to go into the future though we lack the technology to do it, If we can also go into the past that is going to put a crimp in all of our philosophical theories. For instance, where are we in the time of things. Are we on the leading edge of time or are we stuffed somewhere back in mix. If we are not on the leading edge of time then that means that everything that I am doing, I am doing because I have done it before. I am just living my life in some kind of perpetual loop that has an imaginary death tacked on the end of it. If I can go back and see my grandfather, doesn’t that mean that he is always there. What does that do to the concept of death. If he is always there doing the same things that he has always done doesn’t that mean that I am always here doing the same things that I have always done. Where is the concept of free will in that kind of reality. In that kind of reality there is no randomness, everything is glued into place forever. That kind of reality works in favor of Christianity. God doesn’t have to remember anything because we are always right here doing what ever it is that we are guilty of or whatever we are not guilty of. All the God has to do is know how to mingle all of the time lines into one and the end of the world comes for everyone all at once, so we all could actually be living very near the end of the world, all of us from everywhere in time. So, the end of the world may be at hand.
I am not saying that I believe anything that I have written here. I am saying that if you think about it there are all kinds of ways that reality could be going and that nobody knows for sure what reality really is. It is definitely something but what?
Why does reality look like something but feels like it isn’t? Why does reality feel like something but looks like it isn’t? Why is reality both at the same time? Is there really something special about man and consciousness? I read a theory that the accumulation of knowledge and power are inherently self destructive and that we are doomed because of it. The theory said that is why we will find no intelligent life out in the universe because all intelligent life destroys itself in its accumulation of knowledge and power. It made sense to me, but is it true, who knows. It is fun to talk about though. That’s all I’ve got for now. Have a great reality and be random.

[shuyun]

if you step back far enough everything falls into pattern.

step away from the earth and all you see is a planet. step away from the solar system all you see are matter and empty space. where there are no patterns your mind will make one up for you. who's to say that there is an onrion's belt or a constellation draco? but our collective mind's have agreed that those stars form a pattern though in space they're not really co-planar.

pattern, order, disorder, shiva and brahma, is like the proverbial sound of the tree crashing in the forest. is there a sound if no one hear's it if no one listens. is there pattern if no one perceives or pretends to perceive.

write out a string of random digits. and have someone critique if your string is actually random. I'm sure there can be many orders seen. "oh this one is consecutive, you alternated this one, this is simply these three done backwards, this lot skips by two, the last 3 were odd, even alternating odd-even.

or if the lottery drew the numbers 1, 2,3,4,5,6, as the winning combination would you say it was a random lucky chance or that it's not possible and someone should have rigged it. though mathematically there's a one in a whatever-large-astronomical-number that-is-illion chance of that happening. but when we see that order we will conclude non random why?

Part of randomness is sometimes arriving at a precise order. That the earth is precisely at the exact point where it is conducive to create life and in the great unlikely odds that it actually produces life, which it did and that we are here purposefully thinking of the meaning of life and contemplating our importance.

could both be dismissed as intelligent design or dismissed as random patterns going absolutely right.

[Johnny Jackoff]

Nature is, by it's very nature (lol)) chaotic. There are no laws, no social safety net - if you can't run fast enough, you'll either be eaten or starve.

Now, life is incredibly resilient, and nature does have a state of equilibrium, but those have nothing to do with order - it's just a numbers game.